Intermission: Rad Fem Cissexism Fail? Really? How shocking!

31Oct09

Oh look, yet another intermission post!

So I was silly and I decided to engage civilly with a rad fem who was claiming all porn is rape.. Things started out fairly well, we analyzed each other’s points, the conversation went nicely, there were concessions on both sides and then suddenly, she found out I was trans. Cue (these links may be triggering for vitriolic hate) transmisogyny, reality denying, misgendering and absurdity

I left a response comment but chances are it won’t go through. I do feel bad if I came off condescending (I don’t believe anyone should be condescending to anyone) but beyond that I tore her a new one.

I apologize if I came across condescendingly, it was certainly not my intent. I always link fallacy definitions, for anyone I don’t know (and I mean anyone) when I use them as a just in case. As soon as you showed that hey, you’re on the level, I stopped doing that.

Of course, none of this changes the fact that you’re a utterly bigoted and subject to the same old boring stupid as fuck bullshit assumptions about trans women that so many rad fems are.

I can point out to you pretty solidily that every inch of my male privilege has been stripped away by transition. Society operates towards me as they do to women, and in the rare times that they discover that I was assigned male at birth, I get treated worse than any cis woman can ever claim. Even the money I had from getting better jobs was lost by not being able to get a job now. Use your brain and actually analyze reality instead of running on your bigotry. Really, I had hoped you weren’t as bad (well really, rabidly bigoted) about trans folk as most rad fems are, but well, I’m just naive about people.

Manly essence, huh? You’re sounding remarkably essentialist for a rad fem. Are you gonna start accusing me of building Miranda Coils and sapping your womanly essence through pink lightning female energy vampirism, now?

Trans-infiltration huh? Go on, keep on digging your hole. We’re just magical ninjas, biological weapons created by the patriarchy to eat your souls, right? Go on, continue to be absurd.

You were the first one to take an overly unemotional, academic tone. I thought that’s what you wanted. If you want emotion, here it is:

Your analysis is shit. It excludes those women who enjoy porn and acts prescriptively to all women, telling them what they can or can’t consent to. It is destructive, unhelpful, reactionary and a blanket statement. Oh and by the way, you still haven’t addressed a single goddamn thing I’ve said, just spouted cissexist and transphobic venom all over your post.

So I guess you’ve got nothing to back your point up then, if you’re so easily distracted from the topic by your own bigotry.

I won’t be surprised if this comment doesn’t make it through. So I’ll be crossposting this with my analysis at my own blog.

Going back to read the comments will likely be a large waste of my time. Some folks have come to my aid but largely I think they realize how useless it is to try to reason with a transphobic radfem. Their bigotry so intense, their hatred so consuming, that trying to use rational talk with them on the subject is like trying to stop a train with your face. So really, fuck that. I feel I made my point perfectly and established well enough that she’s wrong. No point in subjecting myself to misgendering and claims that I’m “spraying manly essence” all over her blog.

It blows my mind how absurdly essentialist rad fems can be sometimes. The irony is mind blowing. And yes, I did in fact make a Miranda coil reference. Because really folk, she’s an example of #cisparody (on twitter) being too close to truth to be just parody. Poe’s law applies

In case anyone is unfamiliar with cisparody (and can’t access them cuz twitter can’t grab the old tweets), it’s a hash tag on twitter regarding a set of satirical jabs at rad fems, second wavers and feminist transphobes.

It goes over such absurdities as:
1) Trans vampires, soaking up female energy (looks like pink lightning) which turns cis women into trans women
2) Trans women being biological weapons devised by the patriarchy to destroy the feminist movement, that went out of control and got all T-Virus Resident Evil Zombie Apocolypse outbreak on their asses.
3) Miranda coils being the tesla coils of female energy, filled with ultra femme trans women and stealing the energy from all directions.
4) Etc.

It’s hilariously bad until you remember that people genuinely believe this shit. It just took that rad fem gate jumping wire chewer to say “manly essence” and I could think of was cisparody. And the humor of the absurdity helped to lessen the blow a bit, let me tell you.

In regular life stuff:

1: I’m doing some follow up on DV resources for queer folk in my city. The chances that I’ll still be fucked over by them are fairly high but I’d really like to actually deal with having been raped and abused in a setting actually designed for that. Yanno instead of crying alone, talking to just close friends and writing private shit about it. (Although I have to say, writing about it and making art related to it has been really helpful)

2: My family is still out of contact and at this point I’m pretty much ready to give up even thinking about them. I guess I’m on my own for good now.

3: Thesis work would be going faster if I could catch the fuck up with my thesis work. The ADD is trouncing the fuck out of me on this one.

4: Being that temp time is over, I am once again (it seems like this happens every fucking few months, at least this time I can guarantee it isn’t due to being trans) unemployed. So I need to find work again so that I can afford rent, food, yanno basic shit that keeps me doing reasonably well (i.e. not dead). It’s gonna be fun going back into that clusterfuck.

5: I’ve been dodging the GLBT group at my school. I’m one of 3 out trans women that has a connection to that group and the other two are way too busy to go to the meetings most of the time. So when I’m there, I am the only out trans woman there. Feeling out of place, uncomfortable and unsafe seems part of the game I guess. The only time I feel safe is when several of my close cisGLB friends (and the one out trans guy that goes to the meetings who I’m pretty good friends with) who have acted as brill allies in the past and continue to do so are there. And even then I still don’t feel comfortable. I feel like an education receptacle as soon as I make it clear I’m trans (and people don’t know normally, I’m fairly able to blend into the cis populace by appearance and voice). Which means I invariably get the somewhat backhanded compliments of “wow you look so normal“, “oh wow, and you’re so pretty too, I never would have guessed“, etc and the epic facial twist contortion dance from formerly interested lesbians.
Like so:

Interested -> (I tell them I’m trans) -> Surprised -> Confused -> Uncomfortable -> Troubled -> Disgusted -> Realization (that they just looked disgusted) -> Guarded but Polite

Gotta love drop kicks to the good old self esteem. You can’t just go from Interested to Disappointed? The “damn, she’s not my type” disappointed? You really got to go to troubled and disgusted? Really, jerk?

6: My partner is getting a lot of ableist shit at work. So we’re both looking around for better employment for them. Right now the employer fail has gone from being largely dismissive of my partner’s issues to SUPER “HELPFUL” & “ENCOURAGING” EXCITED. I.e. this horrid fuckjob of a manager told the other people in the place about my partner’s issues and claps when my partner does the stuff that is hard for them due to their disability. That’s right, you heard correctly. Claps. I want to find this fucker and verbally facemelt her for that shit. Don’t make PWD into spectacles. You are not helping, goddammit.

7: I’m still struggling with the concept of ADD being disability and the idea that I would be PWD if I so choose to enter that arena. The problem would be icy talons of fear as I discussed here. As far as intersections go, there are some really bad ones to have. PWD + Trans is a fairly unpleasant one, mostly because both are very erased in most communities, even in each other’s communities. So I’ve been really hesitant to identify as PWD and write on these issues within the context of my own life. It’s always been safer for me to write about my partner’s experiences (with permission and constant supervision of course) with chronic illness, chronic pain, mental illness and physical disability. Mostly because my partner is even more removed from this world of blogging and so they aren’t hit with any of the backlash if people get ableist on my ass for what I write. So putting myself out there like that is utterly terrifying. At some point I feel like I should. I feel like my way with words could be intensely beneficial to the PWD community and their support could be just as beneficial to me.

That first step is always the hardest though…



86 Responses to “Intermission: Rad Fem Cissexism Fail? Really? How shocking!”

  1. To save my self the time, and trouble, of having to create full replies to both posts, I shall answer both here.

    Firstly, I do understand your frustration and insecurity which arise during your attendance to your LGBT group at your school. For those who are, in all reality, in the same damn boat as you to react in such a way-and when I say they, I am also including anyone else you have expressed yourself to-is vile and I know that I would have a devil of a time restraining myself from going apeshit if placed in the same situation. It is uncalled for and a person only shows their ignorance when they respond in such a manner.

    HOWEVER, we are talking kids here. Yes, this is a college group and, yes, they are all likely in their twenties, but, from I experience so far with my fellow collegiates, that does not change the fact that many people simply do not grow up as soon as they kiss mama and papa goodbye. Actually, they relapse into their childish mind-the mind that their parents spent 12 or 13 years trying to elevate them out of-and run around fucking, partying, neglecting their responsibilities and pissing their education away as if they had the mind of a five year-old that just learned that they can do whatever the fuck they want without recourse. So, when you are dealing with people who react in the way they do, those people are behaving, and set, in this frame of mind that nothing matters besides what is directly up their damn nose.

    That, coupled with their genuine ignorance-which is not so much their doing as their parent’s-will give you the situation you find yourself in.

    The only thing I can suggest for you to do in this matter is to stomach the stupidity and try and educate them-yes, educate them. Part of what causes people to have hold ups about you is that they know very little about you. Sure, they may have known you for a while before you outed yourself to them, but what you need to understand is-just like how a conservative southerner will shut their brain off to you when they discover that you are “questioning the word of God”-these people’s minds will reset when they learn that about you. If they knew you before, they need to meet and re-acquaint themselves with you. Yes, there will be a sense of bigotry directed at you, and it may even grow hostile, but the only way to earn a person’s respect is to show them that you are worthy of it. I have only been communicating with you for…. less than ten days, I believe, but you have already long since earned my respect and I generally don’t warm up to people who are equally, or more, passionate as I am. It always take time and will often seem to not even be worth the effort, but it will be far easier for you to live your life after gaining a number of allies that you can and trust and rely on to help you out of difficult situations and not leave all the weight on your partner-who, by the sound of your last post, is a cis woman.

    Please do not interpret that last statement as an implication that you are cumbersome or an unnecessary encumbrance. I know full well what it is like to be stuck in a fucked up situation due to no sign of employment.

    Another thing(out of the five, I think) I want to address is the inane beliefs of transphobic people that you mentioned. I have never heard of anyone believing in such things, or even the beliefs themselves(before you mentioned them) for that matter. That being said, I am not arrogant enough to think for a second that those oddball beliefs exist for if it is possible for such an excremental thought to be procured somewhere in the vastness of the Universe then, chances are, somebody somewhere did in fact think it up. My initial reaction to the beliefs you described in exasperated detail was: this should have been included in Religulous-hey, I am rarely serious for more than a few hours.

    People will believe in stupid shit, because of the kind of existence we live in. There are no IQ tests required to hold office in Government; the most extreme requirement of students grades K-12 is to maintain a 2.0(C) average(really, a fucking C?); degrees are no required for journalists and writers to produce materials and texts and-this to me is most important-the fact that any joe-blo can express their views on any given subject and be heard and mass marketed. This, along with several other things that do not immediately come to mind, all contribute to the fact that we live in stupid fucking age. It is not stupid because evolution is wrong and we are heading toward an apocalypse in 2012(take your shit film and shove it up your cornhole, Emmerich), but because so many people are projecting their views and are allowed to speak without having a proper education to support their opinions.

    This is very unlike anyone who would be altruistic or in support of Health Care for all, but I believe that Speech and Press should not be freedoms, but privileges that one can only earn once they have proven themselves rational enough to not believe in the crazy ass shit I have seen and heard people believe in. I am very much an elitist when it comes to intelligence and I think it has become severely undervalued in this post-modernist world.

    This next point will be short, but I must say it. Do not allow your spat with this lady to get you so riled up. She believes in one thing, you believe in another-let’s just leave it at that. Yes, her beliefs are odd, but it is not something that you should allow yourself to lose twenty years off your life concerning yourself with. Just put your points out there and let people choose to accept them or deny them.

    Point 4-as a…. I don’t know how to properly convey myself…. Let’s just, for simplicity’s sake, call me a balanced person. Although I am strongly attracted to femininity over masculinity, I like both packages-I don’t know why, I just do-and am very much a bisexual in all aspects. Despite being an LGBT person, I really don’t give a shit what someone calls me. Call me a fag, ladyboy, queer, yady-yah, blah blah. It really makes no difference to me what anyone calls me or what they mean by saying it. Perhaps it is because of the kind of family I have or because I have no interest in playing the wounded little bitch every time someone puts me down. I can defend myself and I would if it came down to it, but I doubt it. I know what I am and how I see myself and I do not require the approval or sincerity of anyone, although, I will admit, I do appreciate it when someone is kind back to me.

    You have communicated that you are bothered by the insincerity/discrimination of other which is fine and I do not fault you for it. My only hold up is if you have already decided to swear off your family and you know that you love partner, why the fuck do you care what heartless assholes and bitches think of you. If they want to put you down and they have no point of authority over you then fuck ‘em and sleep well at night that there are those-including myself-who admire you for being true to yourself and having the strength to keep on fighting.

    That is all for know. I shall check your blog every two days or so to see what you happen to be ranting about.

    Much love and Consideration,
    Licorice Lain

  2. 2 Lydia

    RadFem.. That’s a cute little label.

    I spent much more time that I thought I would, reading that blog entry and all of its ensuing comments.. I can’t seem to tear myself away when reading an online debate.

    Sadly, my Miranda coil failed and stopped working years ago. I was only able to suck a handful of women dry.

  3. Trans women have less of a voice than cis women, and are easier ignored or devalued by cis women and cis people in general. By degendering trans women, cis women are able to incorrectly project onto trans women the position in the gender hegemony that men have even though trans women, as both trans and women, fall below even cis women in the hegemony. Cis women can use this tactic to further empower their ability to silence trans women. The way she degendered and silenced you was completely based around you disagreeing with her, and so she used her more potent cis powers to degender you and use this degendering to completely shut you down. Who needs logic when you have the power to completely erase people who disagree with you?

    Cis women often want trans women in a position where they are either silent or only allowed to speak on the condition that they could be (and should be as lesser beings) silenced at any moment.

    But yeah, sorry that happened :(

  4. “tearing someone a new one” is rape-language. keep showing your misogyny and male privilege to the world, GB. all the while you claim to have had it excised, on the operating table. what a bunch of shit.

    and leave it to a [removed for cissexist language ~RP] to believe that “not being able to find a job” has anything to do with you, and whether you do or do not possess “male privilege.” in this economy! for christs sake. open your eyes.

  5. As much as I would like them to be educated, I just don’t have the energy to make it a constant battle.

  6. It’s fairly normal, unfortunately. Rad fems are just the worst about it because their hate is ideological and socially trained. So they not only absorb the basic hate applied to us through the social construction of cis bodies being the only acceptable ones, they also have an ideology that expands off this and assumes us to be dangerous infiltrators or even psychic vampires who only affect them.

    It makes them just as dangerous as a Republican Right Wing Patriarchal dudebro for really the exact same reasons (sometimes even similar ideology)

  7. Tearing someone a new one is a phrase that’s fairly common among women and men at this point. So assuming such a phrase would only have come from male privilege is beyond stupid.

    Actually considering my name does not match how I look and sound, I can fairly guarantee you that I’ve lost jobs and been denied them by folk for being trans. The look of disgust when they notice my name that wasn’t there when I first came in is pretty damn good evidence.

    Keep on showing off your cis privilege and transmisogyny, factcheckme, including intensely cissexist language. It won’t go over so well here. You’re not among your cis bigotry enforcing pack anymore.

  8. So fastcheckme is the person we are talking about?

    Miss, my email is citizenausturias@gmail.com-email me and tell me your side of the story without any edits or changes. I know where RP is coming from and understand her positioning, but I do not quite understand what your side is on this matter. I am a fairly understanding person and, if there is any merit in your argument, I will recognize.

    Oh, and it is my intention for that to be a backhanded invitation. I do dislike I when I hear about people stirring up shit.

    Love,
    Lain.

  9. oh! boo fucking hoo. you made your bed, and now you dont want to lie in it. ok…what about those of us who have no choice? we are discriminated against just because we are women? keep exercising your choices, and your privileges, and crying at the same time that you dont have either one. thats a mighty fail, and an “illogical” one at that.

    transwomen using misogynist and abusive language towards women is a huge problem. the fact that you dont see it is a facet of your own privilege, having grown up believing that women where there for you to shit on. and you continue to shit on us, and cover it with trans-rationalizations. yawn.

  10. 11 msruthmoss

    Oh, this is the radfem who thinks that it’s only “real” rape if you can get pregnant from it? So women who are trans, pregnant, post-menopausal, taking the contraceptive pill or otherwise not fertile for whatever reason can’t “really” be raped? Oh my word, that would be laughable if it wasn’t for the fact that “it isn’t *real* rape” is the kind of language I’d normally expect from the MRAs and their ilk.

    What a nasty, hate-filled, transmisogynistic bigot she is. But it’s not a great surprise, the vast majority of radfems are like that unfortunately. Yes, very like #cisparody on twitter indeed. *Sigh* pathetic.

  11. @Factcheckme:

    A choice between suicide (due to the severity of bodily dissonance) and transition is quite a nasty little choice. Keep on pretending that it was for kicks and dig yourself deeper with your cissexism.

    Considering the abusive and transmisogynist language you’ve been using? You’ve got absolutely no credibility here at all. Your cis privilege is spread all over your words like a thick coat of pond scum. Continue to make your boring cissexist assumptions and spout your transmisogyny. I’ve seen it all before. People not only attack trans women for being women but also for being trans. Percentage wise we’re killed more than cis women, raped more, beaten more, denied work more, denied resources more, harassed more and on pretty much every zone of oppression, harmed more. And the fun thing is? Cis women, like yourself, are as much of a source of it as cis men are. I guess that can be comforting from the standpoint that theories of oppression and dominance are very functional and accurate but you’ll have to get over your own cis privilege first and spot how you’re oppressing others.

    Until then though, keep on being a boring, nasty little cissexist. Nothing new from you. *stretches out and naps*

  12. Would you like me to go through and just re-post everything you wrote adding in a “Hey nice Ad Homnim, clearly because Genderbitch has a dick she CAN’T know what she’s talking about at all, after all, men can’t be raped, don’t have feelings. Shame on her for using *GASP* LOGIC as a tool against a weak and emotional woman. How DARE she bring LOGIC to a vagina debate!”

    I mean since I was BORN with a chooch that must make me right amirite?

  13. Miss whoeveryouare, here is what I have to say to you.

    Firstly, given that this is meant to be an academic debate of sorts, I must suggest that you take the time to use proper grammar and punctuation. Failing to do so destroys your credibility among a crowd such as this-people who actually take the time to correctly communicate their thoughts, despite their shortcomings(both RP and I have ADD)-as well as within the “natural” world you claim we are attacking.

    I believe that I gave you a fair chance, in spite of the claims about you, to speak your mind and shine yourself in a positive light. However, you have been doing the exact opposite and you are coming off as the one who is out of line.

    Now, RP is not the calmest person in their world and she can blow things out of proportion, but that is because she is passionate about what she believes which is not unreasonable. She deserves more far more respect than that which you have been failing to give her and it beginning to irritate me. You are welcome to express yourself, but if you do not change your attitude, no one here-not even I-will take you seriously.

    Love,
    Lain.

  14. I got money that says there’s a response from her that is much like the anti-gays response of “Oh it’s still a choice so if you just CHOSE to be normal then you’d be fine”

    I got a good one to that.

    If Fact just CHOSE to shut the fuck up and stay in the kitchen we wouldn’t be having this conversation in the first place.

    Sometimes there are things that we pretend are choices, but really it’s like choosing to get stabbed in the eye with a fork or a knife and then the person bitching because we ask for neither.

  15. Well, as cool as that would be, comparisons between me and men seem a bit counterproductive. Also I doubt she’ll listen. Her transphobia has given her bigot rabies, so she’s liable to flip on you too.

  16. @ty_ping

    I believe you may be correct.

    @genderbitch

    I am posting on my own blog and you get a mention, despite it being relatively small. ;)

  17. She’s fairly silly, yeah. I mean really, all her claims and arguments could be easily used to degender and downgrade her, and they often are by the patriarchy. A lot of radfems go the irony route and use completely misogynistic bullshit to police trans women. Cuz yanno, it’s okay to be misogynistic when it’s a woman who isn’t like you. Totally.

  18. 19 Lydia

    Sexist, racist, religious, anyphobic type people are far too set in their ideals to ever really be rational on the subject for which they feel so strongly about. I don’t think there’s anything else that can be said by her or anyone that hasn’t already been said, and still she (and people like her) will maintain her (they’re) views.. even when the irony and hypocrisy is staggeringly obvious to everyone else.

  19. 20 innominehumanitas

    To call “feminism” the doctrine of sexual equality implies that “chauvinism” is the doctrine of sexual inequality. This creates a world in which one must advocate self-assertion of feminines (women) to the point of complete expense of masculines (men), if one desires a world in which everyone thinks of others equally. Intentionally, unintentionally, to do so defines the voice of man for it and marks it for complete assimilation into the voice of woman, which, when enlightened about its true nature by feminism, becomes the only legitimate sexuality (on grounds that it alone desires sexual equality). For this reason I cannot consider the term “feminism” anything but a sexist term. Anyone who acknowledges my point and yet denies its validity – I must assume that they in good conscience linguistically (and thus mentally) perform the very dominating act upon other sexualities that they despise in patriarchy. That is, good conscience in their own judgment of that conscience.

    So it does not surprise me that so many “rad fems” act in such a way toward transwomen. They cannot see how inegalitarian they are and in this blindness become unshakable in their egoism, precisely because they see this egoism as a righteous fight for equality. It reminds me of the fundamentalist movement in American Christianity, which to this day considers itself a persecuted minority, while somehow consciously advocating total domination of society. And somewhat successfully so, because in fact the fundamentalists have and use a lot of force in our society, to the chagrin of real minorities here, whom they persecute.

    I liken it to Don Quixote, only instead of windmills, he sees some unarmed peasants as giants, spearing them to death behind the safety of his armor and lance-grip.

  20. I feel that your premise is flawed, so I can not acknowledge your point as valid. Feminism doesn’t by definition require elevation of women at the complete expense of men. It’s simply a specialized form of Humanism. I.e. an activism movement that specializes in issues specific to women. Hence, feminism. Feminism is not equipped to deal with the issues of men when it comes to gender (and there are efforts to make a masculinism to deal with those, unfortunately often poisoned by misogyny) but that doesn’t mean it seeks to subsume men.

    I’m sure there were times wherein an oppositionalist model was used, wherein men were seen as something to purge from the world. Radical feminism seems to be the only area in feminism where this model shows up anymore.

    The comparison between American Fanatic Christianity and Radical Feminism is fairly apt though and the Quixote analogy nice as well.

    I only ask that you separate “transwomen” into “trans women”. Combining the words implies that the word woman itself doesn’t apply but a combined word made of woman and trans. In reality, we’re just as much women as cis women are. Just from different roots.

  21. 22 innominehumanitas

    I understand and appreciate that you don’t define feminism in the way that I described; I intended to describe another definition, the one I’ve found more common. When someone defines feminism as the doctrine of sexual equality, it makes, perhaps by accident or by design, sexual equality feminine and sexual inequality masculine. In order to win the good egalitarian fight, then, one must destroy/assimilate masculinity as it is inherently inegalitarian. I detect this sort of attitude in many of those who call themselves “feminist”, possibly including the belligerent one with whom you sparred today.

    Oh, hmm. I’m tempted to keep “transwomen” separate from “ciswomen” because all of the transsexual women (and men) whom I’ve met tend to be more intelligent than average. But
    1) I’m sure that’s stereotyping, since there are very intelligent cissexual women and perhaps there are not-so-intelligent transgendered women.
    2) I believe that all differences are inequalities, so holding transsexual women as separate either places them below or above cissexual women. For example, transsexual women could be honored above cissexual women because their path to socio-sexual maturity was far more difficult from the obstacles involved. Another example would be the ideal that all “feminine” nervous systems be paired with “feminine” sex organs from birth – rather than some being born into the existential struggle of having conflicting parts. In that way one could say cissexuality is greater than transsexuality, that is, in the sense that sexual maturity for the cissexual is more peaceful than that of the transsexual. (Please note that I did not say that cissexuality is morally superior, nor is transsexuality.)
    3) So far I have tended to hold transsexual women on a pedestal, from them being new to my world if nothing else. But this defeats my overall goal to emphasize the similarities (equalities) between humans, over their differences (inequalities). In the universal scale of things both groups are hardly different – and people should be treat them accordingly.

    My understanding of sexuality and the language used to define it are somewhat undeveloped, so I’ll have to put your request on hold as applied to a general practice – but certainly between you and me we can agree on a common language with your requested term. Also I can say that regardless of semantics, I would never -mean- by what I say that trans women are any less or more valuable than cis women. It would deny the experience of both groups to treat them as exactly the same, but it would be petty to attempt to measure which one merits more praise overall.

  22. I came to comment and really can’t think of anything to say that hasn’t already been said. What nastiness. :(

  23. “I tore her a new one” is SO MANY MILES AWAY FROM THE FUCKED-UP, TRIGGERING, MINIMIZING, BIGOTED BULLSHIT YOU SAID TO HER.

  24. Yeah.

    I also loved her hypothesis that (white?) tran women must be the ones leading black cis women astray. Because what other reason could black cis women have to be angry at radfems??

  25. This.

    It’s like trying to claim that someone was mean for poking you when you drop kicked them in the face and proceeded to stab them with crochet needles as they begged you to stop.

  26. Cuz clearly white radical feminism hasn’t had racism issues. Nope. Not ever. Just ask womanists, who made a /schism movement/ and broke away from feminism entirely! Clearly racism wasn’t an issue. Clearly. *facepalm*

  27. @innominehumanitas:

    For some reason my site design doesn’t allow nested comments past two, which makes no godawful sense. So I’ll respond down here.

    Feminism is a doctrine of sexuality quality, but one that concentrates on women, not men. There’s no implication of masculinity automatically being an unequal element. It’s just another option of existence.

    The reason I ask to separate the words is because it degenders me. The trans is always pulled in when discussing trans women. The cis is not always called in for discussing cis women. So cis women get a claim to woman as the default and we are considered outsiders. This is extraordinarily othering and very dangerous for us.

    Splitting the words means we both become equal categories, are less othered and helps refine the language to stop normalization and attacks on The Other.

    I appreciate you liking trans women, so why don’t you honor my request so that the language is no longer damaging us?

    Further reading (Really fucking hope the html for the link works)

  28. I am not defending anyone nor am I criticizing the effort, but…

    Were I to go to a site that has the tag line of “a nice cool sip of misandry, on a hot day.”, right off the bat, I’m going to be aware of the essentialism that’s inherent in the poster.

    The kind of “Rad Feminism:” described by that person is inherently essentialist, and for them, there are, inevitably, clear cut lines of who is and who is not a woman — indeed, that particular flavor is predicated on the only real women being those who hold to the standards of women as superior and not needing men in any way shape or from.

    That means that a housewife is generally barred from such discussions, or her concerns are going to be erased — and we won’t even get into the way they look at how a “kept woman” such as myself is considered (exclusive of the transsexual aspect).

    Truth be told, I’d rather spend my time in discussions with redneck members of an Anti-LGBT hate group swearing they’ll kill me on sight. At least then I’d have the ability to talk about things like is all porn rape (which, incidentally, I disagree with on multiple levels because of the essentialism required to hold such a concept.)

  29. Yeah, I gotta admit, I was kind of naive to even step foot into the site’s comment section to begin with. I could have predicted that this was gonna happen had I looked around her site a little more.

  30. 31 innominehumanitas

    Your explanation supplies what I need to know about how other people define sexuality to decide how I should. When you explain it that way it seems obvious. Even when I separated trans women from cis women by always adding that this or that woman was transsexual, it was to put them on a pedestal rather than to lower them to a second-class sexuality. But you want to be considered as having no real difference to other women, to equalize both groups, to consider the differences as far less important than some insist they are.

    I relate to that; so it is with me and feminism and chauvinism. I wish that people would stop making such a point of being women and men. A certain kind of feminist would argue that as a man, by saying that I want an equality that makes femininity disappear into the one sexuality: masculinity. Unity by assimilation rather than approximation (both coming to the same, horizontal plane). I’m not really sure that the chauvinist response is as articulate; I guess one could point to people like The Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. But I’m not going to let myself be defined by the choices in a culture war that are presented to me: either you’re with the women or you’re with the men in the fight for equality. (The -fight- for equality?) In fact, in order to demonstrate my dislike for that polarization, I point to the “middle sexes” who are completely ignored by a hard masculine-feminine scale (and political struggle). I myself don’t want to be considered XX% masculine, XX% feminine; I have a penis, cool, but I want to be myself, not one of two genders that don’t fit me. So I don’t see why we have to emphasize how different people are, why we have to have racial or national or sexual pride. Why can’t we strive to make all parties involved the focus, rather than trying to make the minority the focus as much as we can, to fight how other people are making the majority the focus?

    I understand that many of the people in power will never let go of that power unless moved to do so by coercion or other strong methods of persuasion (like labor strikes). But I’m raising a question of identity here, not power. One could have a Marxist uprising of the workers and the peasants, but will they be so sympathetic to the needs of the ruling class? Not unless equality is the goal, rather than the working class and the peasants getting what they want. A lack of cooperation and fair treatment between groups of people in a society should be what is forcefully removed, rather than a whole stratum of society being shoved into the grave or into silence. The majority of people being served rather than the minority – that’s overall better, so socialism is better than capitalism, but ultimately the goal is to affirm all in society, society as one.

    I’m going to stop repeating myself. You said you have ADD, I think, so this probably took you an hour to read on and off, at least if you’re like how I used to be. Sorry about that.

  31. 32 Licorice Lain

    I wish I had more time to comment-but I have writing to do today and this does not really count as a free moment. I am typing this via mobile so fuck-ups are too be expected.

    To the person claiming that feminism promotes inequality: you are making an unfounded(and untrue) blanket statement. Like Christianity, Islam and every other religious, ethical and moral system in the world, there is no “one feminism.” Feminism comes in waves-each wave is more extreme than its predecessor. Third Wave feminists are the lesbian elitist, burn your bra type that the masculine world has grown so fond of hating and using to tear down feminist beliefs and ideals.

    True feminism was created back in the nineteenth century as a way to earn rights for women during a time in which they had no freedoms and their only purpose was to be fucked, impregnated and to impose religious ideals on the younger set.

    Men have always been equal as they have always been the basis for the definition of equality. To add insult to injury, men are naturally inclined to want to fuck and abuse as many women as they can subdue so do not fault feminists for bursts of misandry as it IS fair and has been earned.

    However, it is wrong to be lesbian elitist and treat men in the same manner(or, at least, try) that women have been treated since Semitic religion began to spread across Mesopotamia(and, yes, I am placing the blame on Western religion for the inherent sexism of current day culture).

    Now, as for cissexism, I can understand where cissexists are coming from, but, then again, I can also understand where Hitler, Stalin, Caesar and Alexander the Great were coming from. I can understand the unwillingness to accept transexuals as “true” men and women due to reproductive reasons, but that is because I am a genuinely nice person who tolerates most of the bullshit that people say. BUT, when people spout that feminism does not promote equality or someone attackes another simply for being different(in this case transexual), I have to take a side.

    Love,
    Lain.

  32. 33 innominehumanitas

    LicoriceLain:

    I answer you with one question: is masculinism a doctrine of equality?

  33. 34 innominehumanitas

    Nevermind; your comment that “men are naturally inclined to want to fuck and abuse as many women as they can subdue so do not fault feminists for bursts of misandry as it IS fair and has been earned” answers my question. You just demonized and stereotyped people with penii, which includes myself. If you expect me not to stereotype those who call themselves “feminist” (and I did not, if you pay careful attention to what I said; my problem is with the term “feminism” and some elements to how it is constructed), then I ask that you treat me and those like me with the same respect. And I don’t consider “eye for an eye” an helpful, just practice, so I must disagree with your claim that occasional misandry has been the proper response to constant misogyny. When men are the problem rather than inequality of sexes itself, then I have a problem with those who drew up the problems to solve. (Yes, I would have a problem with considering women the problem as well.)

    This is exactly why I have a problem with defining oneself a feminist rather than an egalitarian when one wants equality. Equality cannot focus on one sex over the other, which is what something that could truly be called feminism or masculinism does. Now I think that some egalitarians falsely call themselves feminists. But a philosophy or ethos that truly centers on femmes, pushes men or masculines to the outside, -especially- if the philosopher thinks it is fair or just to center on the feminine and peripherize the masculine, for whatever reason.

    This is why I will not call myself a socialist, because socialism as Marx imagined it would be a tyranny of the previously weak, that is, the working class and the peasants. Perhaps he was right, perhaps the majority has to triumph over the ruling minority in order to pave the way for true equality (communism or anarchy). But I am already capable of seeing all members of society as equal, despite the fact that they don’t treat each other as such. I can already see people without dividing them into “rich” and “poor” and “middle-class” categories. And I can see people as people without dividing them into “women” and “men” and “intersex” categories. At least I can work to remove those subconscious differentiations. So even though total societal change perhaps must be more gradual, in my personal interactions and ultimate goals for society, I don’t have to be a working-class-ist – I’m already trying to be an anarchist. And I don’t have to be a feminist, I’m already trying to be an egalitarian.

  34. @innominehumanitas

    First-yes, I did go a little overboard with the comment you quoted, but I am not going to apologize for addressing the mindset many men have. Your “masculinism” comment, while cute, is not entirely accurate. Society, for the last several thousand years, has defaulted at this mindset, making it the norm, so to refer to it by an actual name is quite ridiculous.

    Second-Marxism is, for lack of a better terminology, anarchy so I am not exactly sure where you were going with the comment about Socialism.

    I understand that you are trying to accept everyone as they are and not make unnecessary differentiations, but you should stop categorizing people who are actively pursing equal rights for specific groups as sexist or racist. That is not the intention of the activists and, should they happen to come off as either, it is merely the result of a moment of passionate speech. People are naturally inclined to react negatively and must strive to overcome it to be perceptibly level-headed.

    You cannot fault someone for reacting to your comments when you try to classify one group as having a superiority complex-which, quintessentially, is what this post is about. Try not to classify people who strives for their group to have the same measure of rights as the wealthy white male(who does have the most rights-this cannot be disputed) as such as it presents you as being interested in cutting people down and not as the egalitarian you strive to be.

    I am not unreasonable or irrational, but we all need our checks now and then.

    Love,
    Lain.

  35. 36 innominehumanitas

    I’m not sure what you mean by these statements:

    1) “Men have always been equal as they have always been the basis for the definition of equality.”

    Men have never been equal for more than very brief spurts (like – days, or weeks). These spurts were quickly destroyed by members of the same old class of people – which has included female aristocrats – who ruled over those men (and the even less empowered women) before the spurt of relative equality.

    2) “First-yes, I did go a little overboard with the comment you quoted, but I am not going to apologize for addressing the mindset many men have. Your ‘masculinism’ comment, while cute, is not entirely accurate. Society, for the last several thousand years, has defaulted at this mindset, making it the norm, so to refer to it by an actual name is quite ridiculous.”

    Thank you for qualifying your views with the adjective “many” this time. The last sentence confused me and made me question whether I read any of the paragraph correctly. Could you explain it further?


    Marxism is the theory that society will naturally progress from the specialized but still highly elitist system (capitalism) to a rule of the working class over the non-working class (socialism) to a system of anarchy or one that is close to anarchy (communism; Marx didn’t seem to specify terribly much the balances of power in this system). The sexual equivalent to socialism would be a temporary state of matriarchy, which will later lead into real sexual equality (communism).


    Again, I have not categorized people who strive for equality as sexist; I think that some of them mistakenly call themselves feminist. It would be no different than if I called myself an advocate of white or male pride but strive for sexual equality. Even to consider one group in society “us” and another group “them” creates a system of unequal loyalty and self-identification, even if it’s not intentional. One must think of oneself as for women and for men (and for everyone between), equally, to call oneself truly egalitarian. If pointing this out is “cutting people down”, then I am paralyzed, because to build people up would be to encourage them to do something not as well as I see they could do it. I meant no personal attack to anyone by my original comments to “genderbitch”, I am sorry that you saw them as such and am glad that you continue to civilly allow me to explain myself.

  36. 37 Jemima Aslana

    *sigh*

    I read that post when it went up. Her staunch insistence that all non-rads are Fun-Fems, and thus neatly boxing us in where we have no room to argue, told me it’d be futile to respond. I read your first response, I remember thinking, “that was really well said” and then my preconceived notion that it’d serve no purpose kicked in and I left.

    I found my way back via Ren’s, and egads I hate when I’m right. I’m so sorry you and hexy had to bear the brunt of her hatred and bigotry. I’m so sorry I didn’t jump in there to support you immediately, even if it was futile to begin with.

    Sheesh.

  37. I find for myself, speaking on feminism, is that the “feminist” movement was originally designed, in theory at least, as an embracing of the feminine to make it of equal and respected status as the masculine.

    However, since it’s creation (at least in North America since 1970/80ish) it hasn’t had anything to do with gender equality or even equality of female traits or even raising the status of the feminine, but instead has become a form of hyper-masculinity that is fueled by a hatred of all things that have a penis. Which not only tears down any credibility one has in the arena of “Gender Equality” but also destroys the very concept of the feminine that feminism CLAIMS to stand for.

    Instead of making it of equal value to be a woman, instead of embracing female traits and feminine qualities, feminists simply make it okay to be men while having a vagina, by proving that they can be even BETTER men by having a vagina.
    Feminism is no longer about re-defining the woman as something valuable, it’s about replacing masculinity with a new ovary filled masculinity and then calling that the “new feminine” all the while killing off all of the original feminist qualities.

    I wonder if this sub-plot isn’t also one of the reasons why many “Rad Fems” have such burning hate for more specifically trans women (instead of trans men, which in a way would be their ideal woman minus the surgery because penis’s are bad) because just as men traditionally tend to believe, the TRUE feminine is evil and wrong, therefore women who embrace that feminine tend to be the one’s “Rad Fems” point out as being tainted by a patriarchal society, and subsequently trans women must be even more wrong because they were BORN into the privileged ideal that all “feminist women” should strive for (to be men) and yet are “choosing” to cast that off and embrace what they’ve so heinously marked as “weak, misogynist and unneeded”.
    Femininity.

    hmmm I’m totally gonna cross post this on my blog.

  38. Huh, I didn’t realize that tagline was on her site, especially after reading her post about how there’s no such thing as misandry, that’s just another word for being “feminist” at all.

    Which does go to show her opinions regarding over sized clitorisis and descended ovaries as a general

  39. 40 Gauge

    Also, “You made your bed, and now you don’t want to lie in it”? what? Trans-people don’t randomly choose to be trans. Those of us that need to transition.. NEED to transition. She is implying we aren’t allowed to dislike anything that happens to us because we’re trans because we CHOSE it. Not simply ignorant and arrogant, but riddled with cisexist privilege. Oh, sweet irony.

  40. 41 Shadow Dragon

    Sorry you had to go through that RP. It’s best not to argue with people like that too much. It’ll just hurt your brain trying to rationalize their logic. Oh, and your partner deserves some accomidation for not snapping at their boss.

  41. 42 innominehumanitas

    As you mentioned your exhaustion with re-educating the masses, it exhausts me to spend pages of words to attempt to explain myself and essentially my desire that everyone accept everyone and cooperate – only to be grossly mischaracterized or misunderstood, like being called a “troll” or “oppressive” or a “chaser”. (I noticed your tweets about me because I followed you on Twitter from someone’s #followfriday and discovered your blog that way.) I guess when one tries to explain one’s theory of equality in order to show how/why one supports a person, only to come off as a monster to the person to whom one gives verbal support, it’s time to accept one’s loss and move on.

    So, no hard feelings, this is not an attempt to make you feel guilty or something, really and obviously, since I’ve spent this whole comment blaming myself, but – I said all this so you know it was a misunderstanding, that there isn’t one more “troll” or “oppressive … chaser” in the world for you to worry about – and I’ll be off.

  42. 43 innominehumanitas

    Haha, cool, this comment doesn’t even read as if I was blaming myself, but blaming you. Now I really know I should give up communication with other humans.

  43. 44 Ren

    Alas this is completely typical: If one does not toe the line in all ways or is somehow different from the pure whatever of rad fem ideaology they get the shaft. I’m cis, but I am also a porn performer and yep, I’ve been banned or whatever there too because I had the arrogance to say women like her do not get to decide when women like me are raped. Then these people wonder why assorted trans people and sex workers dislike them so much…pretty freakin’ obvious, no?

  44. It’s nice to know that my rape didn’t really happen because I was on the contraceptive injection at the time, and that now I have an Implanon implant I’m un-rapeable.

  45. I think the word chaser is mildly accurate considering you elevate trans women above cis women.

    You aren’t a monster, you were just mildly creepy. Nothing worse than being that really quiet guy at the party that everyone is wary of. As for trolling, it isn’t invariably bad. Remember, I’m a retired troll. I certainly wasn’t going to ban you or anything.

  46. Pretty freaking obvious indeed.

    They do the same thing the patriarchy does. Deny agency, will and self determination for one’s own body and life while attempting to force one into a given mode of function.

    It’s ironic as hell.

  47. @Ren and genderbitch It is called mindfucking(and I am not joking). It is what happens when conservatism has as much of a chokehold on US society as it does.

    @innominehumanitias I am an understanding person and will listen to what you have to say no matter what you believe as long as you are not being rational. For instance, my favorite person to speak with at my college is a Mormon polygamist homophobic(don’t even bring up transexuality) “eye for an eye” conservative. I realize this may sound odd coming from a bisexual feminist Marxist ultra liberal, but I do not judge based on beliefs because I know that it serves no purpose.

    My comment that society defaults at a masculine mindset is something I stand by. Yes, the desire to kill shit dead, spread seed to as many women as possible and conquer everyone in sight is repressed by religion, but all societies that exist today place strength above rationality, war above love, father above mother, son above daughter and individualism over communism. It goes without saying that there are women who can be as emasculating and vehement as men(and men as loving and caring as women), but, if you base it on principles and ethical standings, our society operates on a masculine viewpoint and rejection of what one does not understand.

    There has been progress, but it is always fought strongly by the conservative male(that is almost a redundant statement. Why? I think the figure is that 60-70% of men identify as conservative whereas 50-60% of women identify as liberal). The reason why it is called “feminism” is not to elevate women above men, but to focus society on the virtues of acceptance, love and patience as they should.

    You keep using the third wave feminism movement(ate 60’s through the 80’s/90’s) as your justification for describing feminism as a movement uninterested in the egalitarian ideals and failing to acknowledge that the fight for women’s rights has been ongoing since before the abolitionist movement.

    Love,
    Lain.

  48. Wow…just damn. That’s more vicious shit in her comments than I’ve read in one sitting for quite awhile…

  49. And yet, if someone can’t get pregnant from rape then it’s not really rape according to Fact… The so long as all the women in the porn are on the pill… doesn’t that then negete her entire argument?

    OH GOD PARADOXZ

  50. 51 Sas

    “Tearing someone a new one” is not misogynist language. Even if we grant the premise that it’s rape-language, it’s based on the rape of males, not females (the original phrase is “tore him a new asshole”). You can feel offended by the rape aspects validly, but your adoption of that phrase as misogynistic is appropriation.

  51. 52 Sas

    Hey, I just want to say that I’ve been lurking on your blog for a while and I think your writing is wonderful. I saw that RadFemFAIL posted on Womanist Musings the other day and it gave me yet another reason to drop that blog permanently.

  52. 53 Shay

    It’s still worth arguing with mindless, drooling bigots of any flavour once in a while – when one has the time, patience, dose of masochism, et cetera, to do so.

    The same reason it was worth me arguing and burning so many theist fundies when I could be bothered, during my stint on Usenet (alt.atheism, mostly).

    The trick is not to expect them (the bigots, the fundies, the radfems, the wingnuts (both too-far-left and right)) to ever understand how or why they’re so many shades of wrong, not to expect them to ever wrap their mind around simple, honest logic, and not to take their deluded bullshit seriously; but to go into it understanding that they’re already too far gone anyway.

    Why? Because you’re not after them. You’re never after them, and if you are you’ll just stress yourself out and blow a fuse. You’re after the audience – the quiet observers, the fence-sitters, the undecided masses that may or may not be reading/listening/viewing/et al. Because maybe by showing what a rabid, unreasonable, illogical, bigoted tool your quarry is, through rational and entertaining argument, you’ll save someone else who sees the argument in question from that same fate as your opponent. That’s what makes it worthwhile. The goal should never be to change the mind of the person against whom you’re arguing, but to create an example that may help someone else come to understand the points being discussed.

    And I’m pretty sure everyone whom may have been unsure before that reads this will now see how utterly flawed radical feminism is, so mission accomplished. I feel pretty confident saying that anyone whom actually thought “All Porn Is Rape!” was going to be a sound, rational argument, devoid of question-begging, strawmen, ad hominems and ad misericordiams, definitely needed a reality-check at the least.

  53. I assumed she was trolling for views. I’ve used wicked reactionary titles to do that too. I didn’t realize she had barely a nail edge grasp on reality until a few comments in.

  54. You needed another reason? XD

  55. 56 Sas

    I was in the “morbid curiosity” stage, where I kind of wanted to see how awful it would get. This just pushed it to the point where my disgust overwhelmed my voyerism. ;3

  56. factcheckme, perhaps you would like to know that “you made your bed, and now you dont want to lie in it.” Is language used to shame women into remaining in violent sexually abusive relationships. For you to wade into this space and shit all over women about (seriously questionable) “rape-language” is pretty darn ironic.

  57. GB… *hug* just *hug*

  58. 59 Shay

    You know what I just love about her hate-spluttering, on which I just have to comment now that I think about it? I absolutely adore the way she whines about how you explained the meanings of the fallacies you called out in her argument, and cited links to back up your explanations. Cute.

    @factcheckme: Hey [edited for sexist language ~RP], if you knew what these fallacies were already, then why the fuck did you use them?
    When you’re attempting to construct any syllogism, the point is generally to avoid fallacies that will invalidate your argument – unless you want to show what not to do.
    A fallacious argument is fallacious irrespective of whom writes it, on whose blog it’s posted, or any perceived notions about the life of whomever calls it out. Get the fuck over yourself, you dense, privileged, hypocritical, sanctimonious, dishonest, foaming, bigoted twit.

  59. Please be a bit more careful about the insults you use. That one was a bit misogynistic.

  60. Eh man, there is no call for vulgarity back at her. She made the mistake of not watching her language and considering people who are different than she and now it is literally in the past.

    I believe enough has been said.

  61. I’d just like to point out her amazingly racist crap buried in the trans* hate. I mean blaming trans women for WOC having problems with the radfem bible (Off our Backs). Because obviously, WoC couldn’t have years worth of erasure, tokenism, misreprese4ntation in that “mag”. No no no – they got the idea to be angry from.. umm.. trans women (and the residual man-vibe).

    radfems only want agency for white, cis, lesbians (including “political lesbians”) – everyone else – notsomuch

  62. Prolly young white, cis lesbians (political or actual) who are middle class too.

    There was so much classism in her bullshit regarding porn, it was ridiculous.

  63. @Ren and genderbitch It is called mindfucking(and I am not joking). It is what happens when conservatism has as much of a chokehold on US society as it does.

    Licorice for the win!

    I agree that much of radical feminism became stunted in the early 80s, and we know who took over the country at that point. I often believe if this had not happened, feminists wouldn’t have largely gone “underground” and would come to more of a consensus about some of these issues by now. We are all terribly behind in our theory. :(

    Depressing.

    Who is “Fact Check me” and how long has she been in feminism?

  64. I just wasted a bunch of comments on her before she reminded me of her bizarre opinion that sexism is ALL ABOUT PREGNANCY and ONLY WOMEN WHO CAN BECOME PREGNANT are oppressed or raped or anything.

    wtffff

  65. No clue, but either way she’s exactly what’s wrong with it.

  66. 67 Jemima Aslana

    I’ll just warn you fro going back to her site. She has a follow-up post directed specifically at trans women. It is appalling. I’m not trans so it’s not personal to me, but I was unable to read the entire post, it made me sick to my stomach. And the comments are… well, I read only a few, that was enough. Suffice to say she stepped it up from the porn-is-rape post.

    Just thought I’d warn you. Should you decide to take another peek over there be sure to armour yourself with plenty of shit-repellant. You’ll need it. Yich.

  67. I already found out about it a few days ago. Three guesses who that post was directed at? Hint: I was the only person who brought up sex positivity and being exhibitionist on her blog recently.

    Yeah, total personal shot. Fucked up, right?

  68. 69 Sas

    In a way, it’s almost sickly flattering. FCM uses trans women as a scapegoat so that she can engage in misogyny. She hates women that like sex, she hates women that like men, she hates women that present femininely, and she does indeed attempt to insult them by calling them “fun-fems”, but that lacks sting. She calls trans women “fuck-toys for men” because she really wants to say that to other cis women but knows it would get her shouted down. So in a way she’s equating us with all the other woman she hates, and that’s a pretty good group to be in.

  69. 70 Jemima Aslana

    Oh yes. I already figured it was written with you in mind. That’s why I came here to warn/show my support. That woman is so full of hatred I can’t even begin to grasp the scope of it. Not sure I want to either, it doesn’t appear healthy to me.

    It must be terribly triggering for you. I hope you’re okay.

  70. @Sas: You always have a unique angle to see these things in. XD

  71. @Jemima: I appreciate the show of support. It was fairly triggering but the sheer absurdity of her words made at least parts of it funny and silly. Which helped make things hit a bit less painfully.

  72. factcheckme is completely divorced from reality. Fortunately she’s down to about three or four other transphobes in a rhetorical circle-jerk now. This stuff completely divorced her from reasonable people who would have taken away some pretty skewed views had she just been relatively quiet.

    The worst thing she did was make my girlfriend stay up late ranting at her computer.

    Further, as far as the lesbians who suddenly don’t find you attractive when they find out that you’re trans, they’re, in my neurotic experience, more attracted to the idea of being an inviolable Kinsey Six, then they are in understanding that having the hots for you doesn’t change that. Not your fault they haven’t figured this stuff out. Leaves more beautiful women for me and my girlfriend…

    not that we’re really into that…

    not that we wouldn’t be…

    not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    winky-face.

  73. We’ve taken to calling her Femihaterade on twitter as a joke because really, that’s what she is at this point. A painful, unpleasant joke that managed to trigger the fuck out of me in the beginning, but a joke nevertheless.

    I’ve noticed similar, some sort of latent transphobia or this huge attachment to an identity that really wouldn’t be threatened by how attractive they find me but for some reason they feel it must be. Which is where the disgust comes in. I don’t think they stop finding me attractive so much as they mentally restrain themselves because I freak them out.

    Which sucks. I can take not sparking interest or that interest being diverted out of say boredom. But not “OMG TRANNY”.

    Heh XD Nothing wrong with poly lesbians. Poly is a good way to be.

  74. Dear Genderbitch,

    I am so sorry for the stupidity you experienced while presenting nuanced, thoughtful arguments. My jaw is still scraping the carpet after reading the obscene amount of hatred and transmisogyny.

    I have no other words, but would like to say as a cis, queer, black (possible “fun fem”) chick your sex positive, run-buck-nekkid-in-streets exhibitionism is WELCOME in my corner of the webz!

    You’re awesome and do not deserve that kind of fucked up sweet boneless fail.

  75. Hehe, I like that. “Fucked up sweet boneless fail”.

  76. 77 EllieB

    Wow. that is some [edited for an ableist wording ~RP] shit. Wow. I kinda decided to avoid the fuck outta radfem blogs for a few months because frankly, what with the trans-hate, the sex-worker-hate, and the racism, I felt like my head was gonna explode. But I did kinda miss logical gems like “men and transgendered folks can’t get pregnant from rape so therefore cannot fully experience it like teh wimmins” and “using an academic tone as a transgendered person is MISOGYNIST!” Are sterile women less raped because they cannot become pregnant as a result? What about women raped by male spouses who have had a vasectomy? Are they less raped because they know that pregnancy isn’t a possible result? OMGWTFBBQ.

    I just… wow.

  77. The rage is great and all, but please don’t construct mental illness as a cause of bigotry, hatred and purposeful transmisogyny. It’s ableist.

    Other than that, yes, completely and utterly yes. That woman’s logic is built around some serious exclusionary hate, and she’ll go to any length to enforce transmisogyny, even if that means claiming sterile cis women can’t be raped. It’s ridiculous. But it’s also common among these types. My lack of surprise is intense.

  78. 79 Mellanvärld

    “1) Trans vampires, soaking up female energy (looks like pink lightning) which turns cis women into trans women
    2) Trans women being biological weapons devised by the patriarchy to destroy the feminist movement, that went out of control and got all T-Virus Resident Evil Zombie Apocolypse outbreak on their asses.
    3) Miranda coils being the tesla coils of female energy, filled with ultra femme trans women and stealing the energy from all directions.”
    Art thou saying that people actually believe that?

  79. I amped up the absurdity regarding the pink lightning and the Miranda Coils but there are women who believe we steal their womanly energy and lessen them. And that we’re weapons of the patriarchy used to destroy them.

    This parody? Too close to truth for comfort.

  80. 81 SomeGuy

    I find it funny that factcheckme accuses your site of restricting comments when she has posted here, and I am about to post here without needing to register in any way.

    That aside, it’s pretty refreshing to see a well-written blog from someone suffering from societal bias rather than a denunciation that “All [whites/men/heterosexuals/Martians] are trying to marginalize me, but some are trying very hard to hide it.” It’s hard to find reason in the vast flood of stupid that we call the internet. I did think you went a little too far in your first comment on the radfem blog just by the sheer quantity or logical fallacies you pointed out – once you graduate to a wall of text like that, things tend to go downhill. I can’t say I blame you for anything subsequent, however, as she was just a horrendous bitch to you (and in general). While I have to admit that I probably won’t be reading your posts on any kind of regular basis since I am somewhat self-absorbed – I can’t stay interested in the lives of people who aren’t either personal friends or historically significant – I do encourage you keep on writing because you’re pretty good at it and are a good example of how someone with non-trivial and persistent problems in her life can still be normal, well-adjusted, and intelligent.

    As a white guy I can’t say I understand your situation completely, but I do want you to know that some of us who aren’t in the same boat do have some similar deck dressings. As someone who is medicated for depression, believe me when I tell you that there are definite parallels between what you’ve experienced and the number of people who seem to think that you can “just stop being depressed” or that it’s the result of a single, discrete event (and consequently, undoing that event would cure the depression). There’s also a bias you suffer for being fat, though that one is more subtle and unspoken. I can’t fully compare it since I do technically have a choice in the matter of being fat or not, but having been asthmatic as a child and having a naturally slow metabolism are pretty coercive in the one direction. So it’s a weaker case, but being denied opportunities because you don’t feel that lifting pieces of metal into the air or walking on a conveyor belt for two hours every day constitutes an accomplishment still sucks and I can see how it applies with other -isms.

    In parting, I wish you and your partner the best in finding you a job and him or her (you never did mention) a more accepting job. I know how hard it is these days.

  81. 82 SomeGuy

    Thinking about it again, telling you about depression may be unwarranted since putting the pieces together there seems to be a fair possibility that you are or have been in the past, so no offense intended if that’s the case. Like I alluded, I only read this one post.

  82. Yah, my initial comment was because she wanted “academic” discussion. Turns out she’s a bullshitter and only was using the word academic to try to stop being from mentioning their own experiences, not because she has even an iota of clue about academic discussions. Oh well, I shouldn’t have engaged with her to begin with. Some stupid just needs to be left alone.

    My partner is actually nonbinary, so not a him or her but a they.

  83. Yep, I still face depression even now. I am seeking medication for it.

  84. 85 Nick

    I don’t agree with you about a lot of things, but transphobia in the feminist community really really fucking sucks. Go in peace, genderbitch. You’re doing good work.


  1. 1 From Sling Video – The Gender Puzzle « Feminist Whore

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 215 other followers

%d bloggers like this: