The Accountability List

It occurs to me that I ought to actually write down the sites I’ve shit listed I’ve warn listed or I’m going to forget what the fuck they are. In fact, I’m fairly certain I have forgotten what a few of them are. Go my brain. Like a sieve.

Introduction: The Accountability List is a collection of “ally” sites who have fucked up in some sort of awful, ridiculous way on trans issues and then failed to have accountability regarding the fuck up. I am including ableism, prescriptivism and body policing too but those are less comprehensive being that I only recently joined the PWD community and prescriptivism isn’t always easy to gauge. I will mark how they fucked up and link back to the post dealing with it.

This was previously the Shit List and was renamed due to various discussions on overdoing the harsh in social justice activism to the point where it becomes abusive. I figure, with the amount I’ve written on how we need to make some changes to avoid becoming mob justice and avoid being abusive (something that really isn’t justified and sometimes is hidden behind the claims of tone argument derail, further degrading our ability to fight policing due to tone) I ought to practice what I preach. This name is also more intuitive, allowing you to glean the meaning from reading the title, in case you are deeply lazy.

A note on what this list is for (Read this, oh ignorant skimmers): This list is not a list of sites that you should never look at again. Or boycott. Each site will have a specific spot that’ll tell you if it isn’t salvageable (in my estimation) or if it is. But the list overall is to make it known which sites fail to show accountability for doing things that hurt the trans community, the PWD community and engage in prescriptivist actions that hurt all of us, but especially sex workers, porn workers and folks who choose lifestyles for themselves that much of feminism does not approve of (like being a housewife or raising kids). This list is to act as a warning to you, that when you see these sites, their actions are suspect, their motives may be suspect (not that intent would spare them) and you should exhibit caution and discretion when dealing with them. How you wish to deal with them depends more on how you balance accountability regulation and no doubt you’ll have to make your own decisions on how to handle the situation.

Now if you feel that this list is inaccurate (i.e. a site in question apologized for realz, fixed their mistakes and I just didn’t see it) let me know by comment, plus a link to the relevant apology, fixing, etc. If you have a dispute with one of the sites being on this list at all, I’ll allow you to comment on it up to a point, but if the debate gets too long (my comment nesting only goes so far) you’ll have to take it to emails. My contact info is at the bottom of the main page and on the Writer page. If you have a site that has some fail that you feel belongs on this list (i.e. transphobia, ableism, cissexism, prescriptivism or such), I’m cool with you commenting to give me a link to fiskings of their fail and the name of the site. You can also email me. Describe how they failed, cuz I will check up on them and if you just post sites you don’t like, I’m gonna be a colossal bitch to you for wasting my time.

I’m aware that these sites have other issues (like say whorephobia on Shakesville) but I need some sort of link in order to add that to the list. If you can provide, please do.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH A SITE BEING REMOVED, EMAIL ME. DO NOT COMMENT ON THIS PAGE. Comments on this page are only for groups, orgs and writers who are currently on the list or a new suggestion to the list. An individual or org is only removed with a combination of adequate time plus several examples of improved conduct along with zero examples of the previous lack of accountability and bad shit done.

The Accountability List

NOW WITH ALPHABETICAL ORDERING AND EASY TO READ BOLDING! For free

My Husband Betty

Folks in Charge: Helen Boyd
Accountability fuck ups:
1: Trans othering, cis privilege enabling and cis appropriation
Folks Involved: Helen Boyd (OP and comments)
So basically, Helen feels that partners of trans people get to qualify as trans and that cis is hate language. Yep, special stuff. Gotta love that appropriation and othering.
Salvageable: Maybe
Why Maybe: it’s iffy since she’s so fucking entitled, but she’s also made up for mistakes before, so who knows.

Shakesville

Folks in Charge: Melissa McEwan
Accountability Fuck Ups:
1: Cissexism, cis centering, apologism, derailing
Folks Involved: Melissa McEwan (OP, all four), CaitieCat (comments, apologism)
Eulogizing a genocidal transphobic fuck head (Mary Daly) and deciding that a footnote about an “unfortunate streak of transphobia” was enough to fix it. Caitie spent her time being the resident trans pet sell out and Melissa topped it off with an “ALL ABOUT MEEEE” whining post about how good her intentions are and how mean we are for daring to call her out.
Salvageable: Fuck No.
Why not: The entire site functions as a full lockdown individual target safe space, built to protect Melissa from dissent or criticism which of course protects her cis privilege. Now, that’s not to say that protection and safe spaces are bad. They’re unbelievably useful for survivors of abuse and whatnot. But when they are used to dodge accountability and to get away with abusing people who you’ve done oppressive actions to, they become a serious problem. Her site is so heavily locked down under that “protect Melissa” mode that any abuse she perpetrates and any oppressive things she does will not only not get called out or handled, but anyone who attempts to even request for accountability will be attacked. Meaning the site is only a safe space for Melissa and a very dangerous space for most trans women passing through. To drive this home, they and she spent more time trying to dodge even being called out on a mistake and centering how Melissa feels than even considering the possibility of a real apology or even a retraction. Comment threads got closed, dissenters got banned or swarm abused by her commenters, etc. Yeah. Not fixable. Melissa is a lost cause.

UPDATES

1: 2/22/10 Created page, added content ~RP
2: 2/23/10 Adjusted wording in the FWD entry to make it less confusing ~RP
3: 3/2/10 Adjusted some formatting errors, added more updates to PHB entry ~RP
4: 5/3/10 Adjusted entry for FWD to clarify the very minor nature of Abby’s mistake ~RP
5: 8/24/10 Removed entry for FWD due to new information regarding Abby’s apology on behalf of the site ~KH
6: 11/2/10 Removed entry for Bilerico due to new information about Bil’s outvoted rejection of Ron Gold’s transphobic post and major changes made to the ED board and the site’s policies. Also removed entry for Pam’s House Blend due to the hard work of Autumn Sandeen in keeping the site accountable for trans related screwups. ~KH
7: 2/1/11 Changed name of page to something a bit more functional ~KH
8: 2/1/11 Changed description of Melissa McEwan to more accurately describe her problem (heavily locked down personal safe space being used for criticism immunity when bigoted) ~KH
9: 2/27/11 Adjusted description of why Shakesville isn’t salvageable to acknowledge the usefulness of heavily locked down personal safe spaces for survivors, even in the face of how easily they are abused to deny privilege and abuse oppressed people.
10: 3/12/12 Removed entry for Renee of WomanistMusings due to several links showing a change of conduct regarding cissexism over a long period of time without any new confirmed fuck ups. Also added the rule about not leaving comments on this list about a removed entry.


45 Responses to “The Accountability List”

  1. Hrmm. Not sure on the write up of the FWD one.

    Long story short, Lauredhel opened a link share that needed to be in a “feminist context” and basically stated that trans guys are included in that. Hugely erasing of their manhood.

    Writing in a feminist context isn’t necessarily erasing trans dudes manhood, and there are trans men who ID as feminist. I thought the problem was the implication they were not quite men, not that they were feminists?

  2. You’re right, that’s confusing as hell. o_O

    Alright, I edited it. Let me know if the wording is still off. I’ve been really scattered lately.

  3. Well, I made mistakes that were as fucked up as a shit-gravy sandwich. One lives and learns.

    Btw, the guy at our site who was the source of the cisgender/cissexual claim that the term was abusive towards non-transgendr/non-transsexual people was banned awhile back.

    I try to police our discussion Pam’s House Blend discussion threads as well…if you see something you believe is an issue in our threads, please don’t hesitate to email me at autumn [at] phblend [dot] net.

    Lucypaw contacted me on twitter about an issue recently in one of PHB’s threads, and I addreseed it that same day. So with that as an example, we do know that we’re never going to be able to keep our PHB threads completely free from the expression of antitrans sentiments; however, we do try to keep the discussions as PHB as civil and respectful as we can. And when we have blender comment fails, we do address these.

  4. Yeah definitely. Like I said, I really think the site is salvageable, in no small part due to your efforts. I guess I’m just giving some more time overall to make sure more colossal shitstorms don’t occur and then I can etch PHB off the list. Thank you for the email too, I’ll keep you informed.

    Oh also, for some reason my WP dropped your comment in the spam queue. Can’t for the life of me figure out why. So if you don’t have a comment come through for longer than a few days, let me know okay? It might be in the spam queue. Stupid wordpress’s akismet…

  5. 5 Renee

    Really give it fucking break already….Did it make you feel empowered to make a shit list? Did it ever occur to you that you are probably on a few shit lists yourself hanging out with VOZ and parroting her bullshit like an automaton. Your nose is so far up her behind that if Voz farted you could tell the world what the woman had for breakfast.. You and your crew of nasty were not guilt free in that interaction and the fact that you can lie and twist proves your deceitful intentions. Just so you know, you’re not perfect either, and the fact that you can sit here and call people shit gives puts you in no position to judge others. And here I thought I was done with you…Nice to see you keep your word as well as you pretend to be a decent human being.

  6. Voz and I don’t really work together anymore. You might want to actually read about the purpose of the shit list. A warning list of blogs that have issues. Whether people choose to be cautious when reading or not read at all is up to them. The list is not, in any way, a list of “people who are shit”. I could care less how you are personally, hell I’m sure you’re an awesome person IRL. But that doesn’t change what you said and did.

    And you’re gonna have to explain where I broke my word with you. I don’t recall making a single promise to you. I do recall you saying you wouldn’t speak to me again. Wonder what happened to that?

    And no, I’m not perfect either. I accept that. And most likely, there’s a list out there that warns people about me. I also accept that. If I’ve got problems and I pull stuff that’s an issue, well, I deserve to be on a list like that, now don’t I?

  7. 7 Nakedfaery

    I have to say I agree with you about Shakesville. I saw one article that I liked and added it to my google reader. After 3 days it got deleted again!

  8. Removed FWD’s entry due to Abby’s apology on behalf of the site and new information regarding edit capacities on community blogs coming to me. I still got a problem with Lauredhel, Amandaw and meloukhia, but the site is clear and this list is only about problem sites.

    Not problem people.

  9. In reply to the post link from Meghan at The F-Word: I guess the F-word should be renamed to the Fox News Word

  10. Is the ageism on FWD worth mentioning? (not asking out of hostility, just wondered) I realize if every ageist feminist blog was “called out” that wouldn’t leave any left, but maybe I should start doing what you have done here. Some are definitely far more offensive than others.

    And BTW, FWD really did ban me when I first claimed they did. Simply for asking why no old women were linked. (I got no answer either.)

  11. Eulogizing a genocidal transphobic fuck head

    LOL

  12. @Daisy:

    Ageism is definitely worth mentioning and I believe you about the ban. I just need some sort of linkable evidence I can place into this list so that people can see for themselves what was done and don’t have to take my word for it.

    And making a shit list is a tough choice. Realize that when you make one, it will open you up to a lot of attacks as people fail to comprehend what the list is about, as I’m sure you’re aware of from the shit people are putting me through over it. If you’re ready for that, then by all means set it up. It’s been a useful tool for me.

  13. 13 Christine Devilcorn

    Kinsey

    That was some effed-up stuff old Ron Gold said on Bilerico

    My favorite was this comment: “I hope I’ll be forgiven for rejecting as just plain silly the idea that some cosmic accident just turned these people into changelings.”

    But some “cosmic accident” just turned you into a homo didn’t it Ron? It must have been a cosmic accident, otherwise you wouldn’t have spent so much time refuting the psychiatric diagnosis would you? You old shiny headed cocksucker.

    I digress however, what I came here for is deliver another site for the shit list: Feminon

    [hate site link removed ~KH]

  14. @Christine:

    Feminon is a radscum, same as Femihaterade (who actually commented on that link). I refuse to give them any traffic and they’re all so fucking awful that most feminists can recognize their groceness from a mile away. This list is for mainstream blogs, not irrelevant shark jumped extremists who feel the need to spout obvious hate. Giving her attention would be giving her what she wants.

  15. 15 Eirwyn

    (Formerly DW)

    I don’t know if this blog is popular enough to warrant being put on the shit list, but if it ever does become popular, you can safely add Feminist at Sea to this list. :l

  16. @Eirwyn:

    Do you have links you can give me for specific examples of bad behavior and no accountability for it? I need specific stuff to add them to the list.

  17. 17 Eirwyn

    http://feministatsea.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/parallels-between-accusations-of-anti-semitism-and-trans-phobia/#comments Here’s one.

    And another. http://feministatsea.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/radical-feminist-vs-trans-activism/

    These two posts of hers were spawned by a discussion that took place on the Fugitivus discussion forum. I don’t think she’s salvageable. She had pretty much every active member on the forum telling her she was wrong and why, and she just threw a fit, asked to have her account deleted, then went to complain about it on her blog.

    ( http://www.fugitivus.net/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=276 Here’s the discussion. On page three you get to see her get all angry and leave.)

  18. 18 Eirwyn

    I re-read this section, and it seems like it’s specifically for sites that are supposed to be “allies”, but have failed. I don’t think Feminist at Sea has ever tried to portray itself as trans ally, so perhaps it doesn’t qualify. After all, if you put every anti-trans site on your shit list, it would get very long.

    Sorry if I’ve wasted your time! I need to learn how to pay attention to what I’m reading.

  19. @Eirwyn:
    Yeah, she’s really not purporting herself to be an ally. XD

  20. 20 Eirwyn

    Oops, my bad, then. Sorry!

  21. 21 Julissa

    You go on and on about how anti-racist you are and yet you fail to realize how you calling womanist/womanism cissexist and transphobic is a display of your white privilege. You can criticize feminism all you want but step up to womanism and expect to get your criticisms slapped down. The only reason you have a problem with Renee is because she is a black woman who didn’t sit down and let white people again try to tell her and others what a movement made for BLACK women and not WHITE women like you is all about. If anyone is a faux apologist you are as you constantly say “OH SORRY LOLZ I’M WHITE I SO STUPID” and you don’t actually learn from it at all. And not once has Renee used transphobic slurs. You really need to get over yourself, you are not the perfect ~activist~ you think you are. It’s why I as a trans black woman don’t really fuck with you white trans women. You think that because you’re trans you’re free to comment on everything when you need to learn to stay away from shit that isn’t about you. IE: WOMANISM.

  22. Just cuz someone is POC, Julissa, doesn’t mean they ain’t transphobic. Don’t play that asinine game. And no, I’m not in the least bit anti racist. I’m a person that tries and makes mistakes, like anyone else. Also, here’s something funny, just cuz someone is a womanist doesn’t mean they ain’t transphobic either. For someone who has a problem with displays of perfection, you sure do think Renee is perfect (and also really have no idea how I view myself, as far away from perfect as possible).

    Also Renee did use transphobic slurs during the time in question, so you really can shut the fuck up with your historical revisionism. I don’t give a fuck how much you like her, if she pulls shit that hurts people on an oppressive zone, then I damn well will fucking call her out on it. Get the fuck over it.

  23. 23 Julissa

    What transphobic slurs did she use? “Sweetie”? Or calling you kynn a “bitch”? You as a white woman (trans or not) do not have the right to make the claim that womanists are transphobic because A) I doubt you even know enough about womanism to make that claim and B) are WHITE. You do not have the right to come into black women’s movement and dictate to them what their movement entails. Just because you are trans does not mean Renee or anyone else has to let you step all over them. And I see on your tumblr my comment has really gotten to you. I guess you don’t like it when you’re criticized for being racist after all, do you? Why are you so defensive? Maybe you need to step back and realize you were perhaps, wrong?

  24. 24 Julissa

    “I also love how she goes on and on about how I claim to be anti racist and perfect when I regularly point out that I reject ally terminology and refuse to refer to myself as anti-anything or an ally cuz of the issues with cookies for privileged people. Or that I regularly point out that I make mistakes too, often using my own mistakes as examples when discussing mistakes made by activists in general.”

    –You regularly point out that you reject ally terminology, yes, but you’re constantly reblogging posts about the evils of racism and you talk about how others are racist and how they are wrong, etc. So you posit yourself as someone who tries not to be racist online and offline and yet NOW you are being racist. And the few times I have seen you apologize you add this air of comedic bullshit to that is not necessary. Putting off all this Alternate Earth Kinsey shit seems like you’re just using this as another way to deny your privilege. Voz isn’t perfect but no wonder she blocked your ass on Twitter for your white privilege fuckery.

  25. @Julissa:

    Cuz it’s not like Voz claimed that womanism was cissexist beforehand and I agreed or anything. Nah, it was all white girls in this game. Anyways my main claim was that Renee was cissexist, cuz I felt Voz was a better judge of womanism than me (duh, being that I’m white). She (Renee) tossed around the word narcissist (and not just for Kynn, for all of us), a word commonly used to attack trans women and the basis of many of our genders, to the level of slur usage. Note that several women of color, including trans women, jumped into this fray when Renee pulled that shit. Calling me a bitch doesn’t bother me. It’s true. I am a bitch. Cuz people deserve it for their bullshit.

    Anyways. Keep on pretending that womanists can’t be cissexist, hun. Keep pretending a black cis woman is immune. Sell outs like you don’t amuse me anymore. Because in the end, just cuz Renee is black doesn’t mean she has the right to step on trans women. And that’s what she did. Me being white doesn’t change her mistakes. Me being white doesn’t make me any less able to call out cissexism. Her being black doesn’t make her any less wrong for engaging in it. It’s the height of oppression olympics bullshit to claim so.

    On the second comment, wow, really? That kinda makes me laugh. If you took a little time to read (and not Alt Earth Kinsey, oh ho ho did you see what I did there?) you’d notice that I talk about my own racism and direct people to poc activists since I can’t be held as an authority on racism and fuck up as much as anyone else (much like a cis womanist can’t be held as an authority on cissexism and can and does still fuck up no matter how much you whine on her behalf). You’d also notice that I only bring up the Alt Earth stuff when people claim I’m being mean and bully like to them about stuff or that I’m telling them they can’t use freedom of speech when I call them out for slurs. Not once have I used it when I was being called out. As for Voz, she blocked me cuz I reblogged some stuff and complained about some stuff on tumblr related to ableism too close to when she had a complaint about me making a mistake (one I do recall apologizing for). Now, if you think it’s reasonable to play oppression olympics bullshit and demand that people not talk about their issues until a certain amount of time has passed after one has talked about hers, well then, you’ll get along well with Voz. Of course, it looks more like you have no clue what the fuck actually happened.

    None of which surprises me, you not having a single solitary fucking clue what you’re talking about, because that has been the theme with you here on my blog.

    Actually I’d say I’m on the offensive, not the defensive, cuz I’m tired of apologists making excuses for people’s bullshit. You wanna sell out and protect your buddies from their bullshit? Do it on your own blog. Don’t pollute mine. But hey, I know that you won’t listen, you’re so busy defending her and selling out that you really have no grasp on reality anymore.

    Anyways, when you’re ready to do a little fucking research on what actually happened, and on how I handle shit on my tumblr and on what Voz and I actually had said in the exchange (and are ready to stop grossly using Voz as your little pawn for your apologist sell out bullshit, when she was the one furthest on the front lines against Renee’s cissexism) then we can talk. But if you’re just gonna spout bullshit based on zero knowledge of reality and play the oppression olympics game to get Renee off the hook for what she said and did, I’m really not gonna bother.

    Cuz like I said, sellouts don’t amuse me anymore. Here’s hoping the cookies and headpats from the cis people are worth it.

  26. So ummm….what is your opinion of Ashley Love?

  27. 27 Julissa

    Narcissist is a transphobic slur? Why don’t we talk about the appropriation of phobias you still use in your post. Again, Kinsey you are not perfect. And labeling every adjective applied to you as OMG TRANSPHOBIC isn’t going to get you anywhere. Like I said, Renee did not use transphobic slurs. And just because Voz isn’t white, it doesn’t mean she can just come at womanism like that. The power structure, especially in the Americas between black women and Hispanic women are not exactly equal (see: colonialism).

    I’m sorry you feel I’m a sell-out Kinsey, I don’t even hate you. But if that’s how you feel, then that’s how you feel. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

  28. @Julissa

    Narcissist, when applied to trans folks, is a direct attack on our gender primarily cuz the medical field used to misdiagnose us under narcissism and then (second wave) feminism chomped it right up and used it with wild abandon long after the medical people stopped. There’s actual reason to see it as cissexist, this is not OH GOLLY YOU INSULTED ME, HOW CISSEXIST. It’s a contextual slur, in that not all usages of it are slurring, generally just direct application to the group in question (not like some slurs where no matter what you use the word for it’s a problem). So yes, it is a slur. Yes, she did use it. Yes, she was called out on it.

    As for the phobia issue, it’s an area I still make mistakes in (I’m working on changing how I say things, using cissexism instead of transphobia) and very clearly an area you do too, considering all your previous comments have the word all over them and this one too. You wanna make a call out on appropriation of phobias? Try not to be a hypocrite while you’re at it. Take the word out of your posts to avoid the irony poisoning.

    Also, Renee never called me narcissistic. In fact, for the most part, our exchanges were pretty civil, it was Voz and Kynn she attacked the most. I imagine this had a lot to do with the fact that I was very hesitant and very conflict avoidant back then. The epitome of the polite easy to run circles around little marginalized person. Anyways, I brought up Voz’s initial claims because you claimed this is all just a load of racism. Since white privilege was not in play in all the accusers, your claim is pretty soundly false (I’m not gonna get into the colonialism discussion and power differentials between Latina and black women in the US, it is not even remotely my field). Not that it was very strong to begin with since it depends entirely on this ridic idea that somehow cis womanists can’t make mistakes (something a significant number of cis womanists I work with don’t agree with as they dedicate themselves to fixing cissexism in womanism, same as my white feminist associates do for feminism) and that somehow it’s racist for a white trans woman to call out cissexism when a black cis woman pulls it. It’s just a load of oppression olympics and nonsense.

    Which, when it comes down to it, is why I see you as a sell out. Because your logic in attempting to defend Renee is just so absurd I really can’t grasp how it can be anything other than selling out.

    Look at it this way. Let’s say a black cis woman noted that radical trans communities that are heavily white have serious issues with racism. Let’s say I told her off and demanded proof, claiming she has no right to speak on trans communities as a cis woman. You would, rightfully, call that what it is. A derail. Yeah she’s got cis privilege, but that doesn’t change where racism happens. The fact that she’s criticizing a radical white trans community as a cis person doesn’t change the fact that she is criticizing a group that has privilege in another area, about that privilege. Well, the same applies to cis womanists and the portions of womanism they dominate. Yes, I’ve got white privilege over them. But that doesn’t change their cis privilege and it doesn’t change the cissexist actions taken by womanists on behalf of/in the name of womanism. It’s a derail to claim that somehow me being white is relevant to a black person’s cissexism or somehow negates it.

    It’s ridiculous and that is something you simply should know. The fact that you don’t seem to is why I have a hard time believing your sincerity. All that said, I don’t hate you or even dislike you either. I find you frustrating and tiring, but none of that is personal. I hope I don’t come off as though I hate or dislike you. I’m just not in good health and I’ve been snippy with people lately.

  29. @Christine: I’m not familiar with Ashley Love.

  30. 30 Julissa

    To be honest, I used transphobic slurs because you did. But, again, I do realize some people use transphobia/homophobia still and I’ll give them some time for it. But I read your tumblr and you have talked about how it is appropriative often. In some cases, however, I really do feel some cis people have phobias of trans people but is that neither here nor there? As a black (and Hispanic might I add) trans woman, when someone says that womanism is “transphobic” or cissexist I *too* take offense because *I* myself have not read any womanist literature with cissexism in it. That is not to say that womanists themselves don’t ever stumble or fuck up, no, but I haven’t read any essays that I could say were cissexist. And honestly, if anyone could find them I’d STFU and STFD about this but no one has. Renee is not a cissexist although she has said cissexist things equating pussy with women, but, she is not A cissexist and I feel like that’s what you’re painting her as. I saw the comments from Voz, Kynn, and yourself as an attack against womanism being started by non-black women. And I also think we need to separate the word “narcissist” from Narcisstic Personality Disorder right?

    I know, as I read on your tumblr, you think saying “I agree to disagree” is a cop-out but sometimes people have to agree that they’re not going to see things the same way. Period. I commented on this post to let you know that what you said is problematic for me as black trans woman but hey, you’re still going to do your thing.

  31. It’s worth noting that Melissa from Shakesville also screwed up on the Cornell scandal last year, when she failed to report that a lot of the victims were intersex. Mind you, many sites did this, so she is not alone in her mistake. But when I called Melissa out on her erasure (diplomatically, even), she waxed on about her good intentions, and failed to actually acknowledge her error or change the post. This is a common theme with Melissa, I think.

    “The entire site functions like a cult of personality, built to soothe Melissa’s ego and protect her dear feelings from dissent or criticism[...]”

    I totally laughed out loud when I read that. Spot on.

  32. @Julissa:

    Oh, okay, I didn’t realize you were using the term cuz you saw me using it. And yeah, I’m definitely giving others time on it too, cuz those words have been a huge part of the discourse and it’s tough to change overnight. And I dunno about genuine phobias of trans people cuz unless it’s the disorder it’s not really a phobia. Maybe a non disorder based irrational fear but it’s… eugh… it’s too close to problematic for me to really let it go. Especially since for the most part, cis fear of trans women especially and trans people in general is trained by society, something that doesn’t apply with phobias.

    I think I see where we are having issues, because I include blogging, articles written by lesser known activists and community publication sites to be a part of literature of a group. In this day and age, so much is shifting online that it can’t just be based on books. People like us are having a real effect on our respective movements (or movements that listen to us, since I’m not actually a feminist) by writing here and often many of us become part of the voice of the respective movements. And I have come across online stuff written by womanists on behalf of womanism that has cissexism in it and Islam hate in it too oddly enough. I’ve been told Renee actually has a big problem with Islamo”phobia” in her writing (I don’t have a better word than the phobia word) from Aaminah and a few other activists in that zone, although that’s not super relevant here right now. I’m also gonna point out that the whole equating woman to pussy thing that Renee does, as a major womanist blogger, would actually be put towards that grouping of online articles with serious problems, poisoning womanism with cissexism. And that’s clearly something you have read.

    If you don’t consider online work to be a part of the literature well… yeah we will just have to agree to disagree, as irritating as that is. But if you do consider it so, well then you have your example right there in your own words.

    As for separating being a cissexist and showing cissexism, I think it’s kind of a semantics quibble to separate the two like that. It’s not this stain that sets into you. A person is a cissexist at the time they fail on cissexism, yanno do cissexist things. They stop being a cissexist when they work on those things, fix them, apologize, whatever. It’s a condition that applies while the person is fucking up. So yes, the fact that she equates pussy and woman is cissexist and when she’s doing it (and for however long it takes her to apologize and fix it) she’s cissexist. It’s the same for any other -ist/-ism word.

    The word narcissist is, for the most part, separated, but second wave feminism (and parts of USian society) still uses it to attack our genders. Which is why it’s still a problem, even the colloquial, non disorder use. I was just giving you the background of the word, why it became such an issue.

  33. @Cessen:

    It’s why I don’t think she’s salvageable at all. She really just makes it all about her, even when she’s the one being oppressive. With the number of privileges she has, she can’t afford to pull that kind of shit and be called an ally site runner. And we can’t afford to keep her as an ally. The cost is too high.

  34. I like the new Shakesville description a lot better. It’s a lot more convincing; before it came off as saying that Melissa had issues (to understate it dramatically), including that she can’t take a call out when she does something nasty, and that you strongly dislike her and her blog; now it more clearly says exactly what the problem is, which is a lot more convincing. I mean that; after reading the new description, the issues stand our more clearly (I tune out “personality cult” as a meaningless attack. “Full lockdown individual target safe space” is a lot clearer), and I see more clearly why you have it listed as unsalvageable.

  35. @TalieC: I’ve been recently trying to get a bit less personal on some of the stuff I write. Cuz in the end, some of what I do edges into journalism and that requires a little bit more caution in writing.

  36. 36 Former Jezzie

    In terms of places that insult women who don’t fit into what some feminists think are the appropriate feminist lifestyle… Jezebel.com has a history of assuming that women who choose abstinence for themselves and/or just don’t have sex by a certain age, whether intentional or not, must be repressed and/or ultra-religious. They seem to think one must be having sex to be sex-positive. I’ve been discussing it with other current and former members of Jezebel and it is beyond irritating that they’re so vigilant about slut-shaming being bad but think prude-shaming or virgin-shaming is a-ok.

  37. 37 Former Jezzie

    Also, I’ve always gotten that impression about Shakesville, that their “safe space” mentality is more about warding away criticism than it is about actually creating a safe space. I wasn’t privy to their transphobic posts, but I’ve seen that attitude with other things.

  38. 38 pocket

    Do you know off the top of your head/links of some of the posts that you are talking about with Shakesville? (There are a lot…) I definitely get what you’re saying about Melissa, but I think that there are some people who write there that do a good job. She does very strictly police everything people say, I just haven’t read anything particularly offensive at this point.

  39. 39 evie

    Nice job on the new list.

    I just noticed that Boyd uses the word “Admirer” where I (personally) would use “chaser”: http://www.myhusbandbetty.com/2011/02/27/admirer-in-the-news/

    Obviously a lot of the stuff directed at Lee was just bigoted and it’s good to call that out. But since he lumped together “ts/cd” and used the word “passable” it seems a little problematic to say “I think it’s lovely that he admires and prefers to date trans women”?

    Just wondering if that should be added to her entry.

  40. @Former Jezzie: Could you get me some links to some specific examples? I try to cite the accountability fails on the list so that people have evidence.

  41. @Evie: Perhaps. It seems a lowkey slip though. Has anyone actually called her out on it? Cuz this list is less about mistakes and more about not having accountability for them. So if no one has called her out, we can’t really know if she’d hold herself accountable and fix it.

  42. @Pocket: There should be links in the entry. And yes there are people who write there that do a good job, but her serious level of control over everything makes it less a community blog and more her blog. Which is why I mark the whole thing.

  43. I got banned from commenting on Shakesville after one comment I left on a post (which was basically a cis lady going WOW MAYBE GENDER ISN’T BINARY) saying “um, some of that was pretty cissexist.” Literally that is all I said. And then I was banned, and the comments thread was locked.

    God forbid an actual trans person have input while cis folks are trying to understand “the non-binary nature of gender” or whatever the crap she was calling it…

  44. And then there was two.

    FWD and Renee of WomanistMusings are both clear now due to new information and time passage.

    If you have any issue with either FWD or Renee being removed from the list please contact me by email, do not leave comments on this page.


  1. 1 When commenters attack. | The F Word

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